@JamminJerry Yeah, exactly. I have no use for a cool Linux machine that supports Braille input and is based on an open platform and has long battery life. My iPhone can do everything it can do!
@fastfinge even if I had that kind of coin, I would mainly use it for reading harry potter fan fics. so would I pay that much for something I am just going to read fan fics on? nope. no way. lol.
@JamminJerry Yeah, exactly! You can use VoiceDream Reader for that even though the app kind of sucks now but there are other apps. And if you want to read on your phone without constant interruptions from notifications you can turn on do not disturb mode. And you have a back-up battery already so the extra battery life is totally meaningless and not something you need.
@fastfinge well I use a laptop for reading my fan fics. I am not someone that uses my phone for everything. I only listen to music, and watch youtube videos on my phone if I am not at home. seeings how I barely go out, there you go. now if I am outside just walking around in the driveway or something, then yes, I do listen to music ohn my phone.
@fastfinge as you can tell for me, if I am thinking about getting something that is over say 100 dollars, I have to justify it to myself before buying it. so it comes back to cost for me all the time. lol.
@JamminJerry Totally. And if I wanted a reading device I could get one of @simon's solar jelly android preserve phones or whatever they are for much cheaper than a BT Speak.
@JamminJerry@fastfinge@simon Oh you can get something that is super basic and not usable for anything more than email and some light web browsing for <$150
@dhamlinmusic@simon@fastfinge@JamminJerry I wish somebody could remind me of that because I want one so bad. Sadly, the cost is kind of getting in my way. I don’t even know how to use Lennox and I think these things are cool.
@dhamlinmusic@JamminJerry@fastfinge I've now been able to test the Mini S13 Pro with the Celeron N150 and 16 GB RAM. It is surprisingly usable. I could comfortably use it as a work PC if nothing else, running Office and web browsers and whatever else. In pure numbers, its geekbench scores are approaching the single-core performance of my 2020 Ryzen7 laptop and multicore is about 70% of the way there. $170 on Amazon.
@simon@JamminJerry@fastfinge My EQR6 Ryzen 9 6900hx has been spectacular, besides restarts for updating it has been on continuously for a month without a hiccup.
@fastfinge@JamminJerry How much do you care about Eloquence? You can run that on a cheap Unihertz phone but not on the BT Speak. I find the price obnoxiously high, but everything you said about it is also why I find it appealing. I just do not understand why it needs to cost what it does. Either I'm way wrong about manufacturing costs or they are making an absolute killing. They were content to charge $800 for the exact same device with a software lockout on running a proper desktop environment. When everyone (rightfully) biqched, I wish they'd just met in the middle and charged $1000. But apparently they are content to charge $1200 _a device they could have reasonably sold for $800. So yeah, much as I want 'one too, it's hard to justify. I figure that eventually, some company like GPD will release a tiny ARM computer and then we can get one of those.
@fastfinge@JamminJerry It's different between Linux and Android. On Android, you can still run Eloquence if the CPU supports 32-bit. Some newer phones do not. My Pixel 7, OnePlus 13, and Jelly Max (which is the larger, five-inch phone) do not support Eloquence. The Jelly Star and Tank Mini do, because they're using an older chip that hasn't got that cutoff. They also have headphone jacks where the Jelly Max does not. On Linux, I'm not aware of any emulation and there's no Voxen Eloquence for ARM, so you just can't run it at all. You can still run Voxen on an Intel Linux machine.
@fastfinge@JamminJerry Correct. It'd be hard to find something in that price range that runs Eloquence and also gets updates. Phones like the S23 series could do it, but Samsung is its own unique brand of terrible for us. I don't personally care that my book/media device is on Android 13.
@simon@JamminJerry So I don't have any other Android thing, so I'd want to be on the latest and give up eloquence to test accessibility of newer Android. So should I get Jelly Max or Tank 3 Pro, if I spent money for no reason?
@fastfinge@JamminJerry Honestly, as much as I talk about Unihertz, I can't recommend their phones as primary devices because they have a history of questionable quality and they never, ever offer updates. I think there's one time in all of Unihertz history where they've updated a phone by one major Android version. Otherwise, you get whatever it comes with. So, if you want to test out Android and forego Eloquence, i'm going to recommend you get a Pixel.
@fastfinge@JamminJerry Yeah, they've been getting more expensive here for some reason. I got a Pixel 7 a few years ago through Rogers and thanks to a promo, the phone plus a second line was far cheaper than just buying the phone. I would say the Jelly Max is a solid pick from Unihertz if you want something fairly up-to-date, as long as you're okay with a five-inch screen and a chonky design. They charge at 66 watts which is pretty cool. However, Android 15 is already out, so you're technically outdated on day 0, and there are cheaper phones that get better updates. Android is never simple. I know the Samsung A16 (and the A*6 line in general) is supposed to get six years of updates which is downright impressive for their budget line. I don't know about 32-bit app support or general performance with Talkback.
@fastfinge@simon@JamminJerry You might be able to find something reasonable if you're willing to buy something used. I bought a 6A off of someone I know for $150. If possible Pixel is the best option. It's made by Google, so stock Android and updates as soon as they come out. No waiting around for Samsung or whoever makes the device to decide they want to give you the next Android release.
@simon@fastfinge@JamminJerry Eloquence still works on my Motorola running Android 15, but of course you have to have bought it when it was still in the Play Store. It was supposed to have already quit working, though, and it hasn't at least for me.
@simon@fastfinge@JamminJerry It's the Motorola GPower 5G 2024 for something like $250. Very slightly laggy with TB navigation but definitely usable especially if, like me, you don't use it as a primary device.
@simon@fastfinge@JamminJerry@modulux I just keep hearing slightly dodgy things about them to be honest. Casing messed up, their people not being paid or being taken advantage of, shady support practices. I dunno it just all looks shady in a way somehow. Not good vibes
@bermudianbrit@JamminJerry@modulux@simon It wouldn't be allowed as a blindness accessibility company if there weren't shady practices of some sort going on. Sorry, I don't make the rules!
@bermudianbrit Don't forget the biggest, most salacious scandal of them all: nobody could find info about the company they allegedly licensed DECtalk from, which obviously means they stole it off GitHub. /s @simon@fastfinge@JamminJerry@modulux
@bermudianbrit@jscholes@JamminJerry@modulux@simon Yes, they did use the DECTalk code from github. But I have no reason to doubt that they were given a license to do so by Human Voice, LLC. "Human Voice LLC" is a real company, and you can find its New Jersey incorporation documents. You can also verify that it was incorporated by family members of Denis Klatt. That took me about three minutes of searching. And most of that time was spent filtering out mailing list posts from idiots asking questions and making false claims. I don't think this particular conspiracy has legs. Matthew is a lawyer, so he could probably access the associated documents even easier than I can.
@bermudianbrit I'm honestly not sure what people are most annoyed about: that a company may've lied, that someone else might know more about DECtalk licensing than they do, that a company might have stolen their pirated work off of GitHub and put it in a commercial product, that they can't buy DECtalk legally for themselves, or something else. @simon@fastfinge@JamminJerry@modulux
@jscholes@bermudianbrit@JamminJerry@modulux@simon The only thing I can't prove is that Human Voice, LLC has the rights to license DECTalk at all. DECTalk was created at MIT and Digital Equipment Corporation. Did Denis own the rights to DECTalk at the time he died? It looks like Human Voice, LLC is working under the belief that he did. But based on how most employment and research contracts work, I find this deeply unlikely.
@simon@fastfinge@JamminJerry It's because they slapped the blindness label on it. Companies who market blindness products ten to think it has to cost $1000 or more. Not all, but a lot.
@modulux Yeah. It's just a raspberry pie with a nice case and a bit of custom software. If I want that I could build it myself. If I haven't it means I don't want it that badly. Right?
@modulux Right, but compare the price of that to the price of a raspberry pi 500! The only difference is that the BT Speak supports Braille input and it's much smaller and Linux is already installed and configured so you don't have to do it yourself and it comes with decent customer support and it has dectalk. But otherwise it's the same thing! I mean, it doesn't even support the old BNS basic games that I spent hours playing in class on my Braille 'N Speak when I should have been paying attention. So what good is it, really? No good, that's what!
@fastfinge@modulux I miss the basic games. I miss text adventures, too, although it's hard not to go googling and find hints or turn to reddit and moan about the cryptic clues nowadays. no self control anymore. when I played them offline I had no choice but to be good.
@fastfinge@modulux damn, I can't even get one which will only do Internet if I go back to the place I could dial-up in the 1990's?
In all seriousness, UK taxes on the thing are huge, and none of the distributors here have been treated kindly by Blazie, so I hear.
I've also not yet seen a physical braille in device which is as fat as BSI on my iPhone. I've used the braillesense and braillenote, demo'd the Orbit Speak at a tradeshow and heard samples of people using Bt speak. they all braille either half as fast as i do, or sound like they're entering the semifinals of the loud keyboarding championships. Not saying iOS is the best by a long shot as an operating system or that VO doesn't have its issues, but it's screen-based Braille input is remarkably smooth under my fingers.
@fastfinge@modulux and it doesn't have eloquence. It absolutely doesn't have eloquence. I would be very tempted if it had eloquence, but it doesn't, so I'm not tempted at all. Not at all.
