Note by @fastfinge

Quin @TheQuinbox@dragonscave.space

I recorded a quick audio demo comparing Dolphin Easy Reader and Paperback head-to-head on screen reader accessibility and general app performance. In the attached recording, I walk through Easy Reader’s clunky UI, duplicate speech readouts, tabindex quirks, and much more, followed by showing how Paperback blows it completely out of the water by opening massive EPUB's instantly and just being generally much easier to navigate.

🇨🇦Samuel Proulx🇨🇦 @fastfinge@interfree.ca

@TheQuinbox If paperback could do audio (especially daisy/zip) my life would be perfect, honestly. There's no good, cross-platform audiobook reader. There are a couple that are okay on IOS. But even on IOS, since the enshitification of VoiceDream Reader, we have no good, single "read everything" app; it's one for ebooks, and one for audiobooks.

Quin @TheQuinbox@dragonscave.space

@fastfinge Well, this is in the pipeline. Not sure when it'll be done, but a contributor and someone I'm becoming friends with has began adding this, and I am here for it.

🇨🇦Samuel Proulx🇨🇦 @fastfinge@interfree.ca

@TheQuinbox As someone who subscribed to VoiceDream until it just got too buggy to even use at all, if paperback does audio and text I'll happily toss over a few bucks or buy it from the app store or something. I don't even need or want cross-platform syncing of my place or anything. Just one app to do all my reading in all my places. It sounds silly, but now that I'm split between two apps, I find myself forgetting about either audiobooks or ebooks. Like I read both normally, but now I just start the next book in whatever app I happen to be in when the last one finished, rather than thinking about what's on my to be read pile in both formats.

Quin @TheQuinbox@dragonscave.space

@fastfinge The plan is that we'll initially have a free test period for Paperback on mobile. This will also be when 0.9.0 of the desktop software will get released, both for Windows and macOS. Then, once we get feedback from lots of users, 1.0 will go into the app store/play store officially, with a price tag around $20.00, the same price Voice Dream was before it went subscription. I am also considering having a macOS app store version that's an optional paid upgrade, make it very clear it's a supporter's edition because you'll always be able to download Paperback for free, even if the auto updater doesn't yet work on Mac, but you'll pay to support me and get automagic updates. And eventually, no idea when, I do want to add syncing. It'll be complicated and require me to think about a lot, and to be completely honest if you want to use my servers for it it'll likely be something like a one dollar a month subscription fee, but I see no reason I couldn't just...let people host their own servers if they're not happy with that, it is open source.

🇨🇦Samuel Proulx🇨🇦 @fastfinge@interfree.ca

@TheQuinbox Honestly you probably want people to use there own servers. I know some people who have 87 gig libraries, even though they delete books as soon as they've finished them, just because the TBR pile is endless. Just, you know, saying for a friend. If I were you, I would consider supporting audiobookshelf. In spite of the name, it also supports epub. And then you can let it also handle syncing reading progress for people who want that, without any extra work. And it's already documented, offers docker and other setup instructions, etc. I guess you could then sell audiobookshelf hosting for peple who want that and as a way to make money. audiobookshelf.org/docs/documentation/libraries/book-library/ebooks/

Alex Hall @alexhall@mastodon.social

@fastfinge @TheQuinbox Seconded! Audio Bookshelf support in a fully accessible app like this would be an instant buy for me. I mean, Paperback will already be an instant buy, but you know what I mean.

🇨🇦Samuel Proulx🇨🇦 @fastfinge@interfree.ca

@alexhall @TheQuinbox Agreed. I'd even support doing what some other open source apps do, and selling a closed-source version with audiobookshelf support, and continuing to make everything else open source and free. That'd put you in line with easy reader honestly, where it's free on IOS as long as you don't want cross-platform sync. Support both for audio and for syncing everything via ABS would easily be worth $35 or $40 to me.

Alex Chapman @alexchapman@vee.seedy.cc

@fastfinge I wouldn't close source the version with audiobookshelf support, I'd just do what's suggested earlier and sell hosting for audiobookshelf servers. @TheQuinbox @alexhall

🇨🇦Samuel Proulx🇨🇦 @fastfinge@interfree.ca

@alexchapman @TheQuinbox @alexhall Sure, but that assumes they want to run servers and deal with the infrastructure and support and so-on. If they don't, closed-sourcing ABS support is another option. ABS is an advanced feature, can probably be kept pretty modular, and in no way stops someone who can't afford it or doesn't want it from using paperback to read whatever they want. Whereas guys like us who spend 10 hours a day in our reading app all probably run audiobookshelf, and should pay Quin something anyway.

x0 @x0@dragonscave.space

@fastfinge @TheQuinbox @alexhall @alexchapman While I am capable of selfhosting I don't have the slightest knowledge of docker and would really prefer something more along the lines of keypass via dropbox.

🇨🇦Samuel Proulx🇨🇦 @fastfinge@interfree.ca

@x0 @TheQuinbox @alexhall @alexchapman The issue is that won't easily allow syncing your place cross-platform, whereas audiobookshelf will. You can do audiobookshelf without docker if you want: audiobookshelf.org/docs/documentation/install/linux/linux-install-deb

x0 @x0@dragonscave.space

@fastfinge @TheQuinbox @alexhall @alexchapman Huh? Why would keypass-style not allow syncing cross-platform? It just means you need a backend that's cross-platform. If you have a home audiobook server or whatever, especially if it has a network share, use that. Say via tailscale. If you don't, dropbox.

🇨🇦Samuel Proulx🇨🇦 @fastfinge@interfree.ca

@x0 @TheQuinbox @alexhall @alexchapman First because dropbox isn't free. I don't have or want it. Second because dropbox just allows uploading and downloading files. Adding a bookmark to a file would mean downloading the entire file to your device, adding the bookmark, then re-uploading the entire file. For something like keepass that's fine, because password databases are small. But for books, it's worse. For audiobooks, it's a complete non-starter.

Alex Chapman @alexchapman@vee.seedy.cc

@fastfinge Oof yeah, I just think that closed sourcing something to support an open source service is kinda ass backwards lol. @TheQuinbox @x0 @alexhall

🇨🇦Samuel Proulx🇨🇦 @fastfinge@interfree.ca

@alexchapman @TheQuinbox @x0 @alexhall It's how most commercial open-source offerings work. MySQL works that way. Docker and k8s work that way. Nextcloud and Owncloud work that way. Most commercial apps that use OIDC work that way, a free version without that feature, and a commercial version that has it.

x0 @x0@dragonscave.space

@fastfinge @TheQuinbox @alexhall @alexchapman You wouldn't modify the actual book file! You'd store a cross-platform database, just like keypass does, which has books by hash and positions. The standalone versions already do this, you just have to make it path/platform agnostic.

x0 @x0@dragonscave.space

@fastfinge @TheQuinbox @alexhall @alexchapman And if you want it to be free, depending on how the file sharing APIs work, you could just have it read from and write to some file on a backend of your choice. SMB. Dropbox. FTP. Whatever. So if you've got your phone connected to a media server which actually has your audiobooks? Just let it write to a file on there.

🇨🇦Samuel Proulx🇨🇦 @fastfinge@interfree.ca

@x0 @TheQuinbox @alexhall @alexchapman Right, so now you need to design an entire database, worry about file locking, etc. You can't use sqlite because sqlite has to download your database of file positions, update it, then re-upload it. And if another device is also updating the device, now you have conflicts and other nasty problems. Keepass just ignores the problem. That's why I don't use it, actually, because that exact problem bit me multiple times. So you've got to design your own schema that allows updates based on parcial uploads, allows shared edits and/or locks, and decide how to resolve when two different devices have two different versions of the truth. What happens if one was offline for a few hours/days? Whereas you could just use audiobookshelf, make a single API call when the user pauses reading, and be done. Audiobookshelf has taken care of all the hard stuff, so you don't have to just re-invent a cross-platform version of all of iCloud yourself.

x0 @x0@dragonscave.space

@fastfinge @TheQuinbox @alexhall @alexchapman Yeah conflict detection is the more annoying part. I thought keypass actually did have a solution for that. But yeah offline for a few days is the kicker.

🇨🇦Samuel Proulx🇨🇦 @fastfinge@interfree.ca

@x0 @TheQuinbox @alexhall @alexchapman audiobookshelf has a concept of sessions. So if your Android is offline for three days, when it comes online, your Android makes an API call telling audiobookshelf "Android's position on this book is this location". If you open the book on your Windows computer, it can check with audiobookshelf, then ask you if you want to resume where you left off last on Android, iPhone, or Windows. Or just resume at the farthest place reached. So you never have to worry about signing your Android online and it suddenly setting all your reading progress back to whatever it knew about two weeks ago or something.

miki @miki@dragonscave.space

@x0 @fastfinge @TheQuinbox @alexhall @alexchapman The real solution here is a tiny server and CRDTs. Cloud storage just isn't meant for this.

miki @miki@dragonscave.space

@x0 @fastfinge @TheQuinbox @alexhall @alexchapman With that said, Cloud storage and servers are a good idea for storing the actual books themselves. Have a tiny service that just handles the positions and the conflicts, offloading actual storage to either s3 or an user-chosen cloud or server, depending on subscription. That would be an interesting way to monetize the project, monetizing convenience, not crucial accessibility features.

Elijah Massey @emassey0135@caneandable.social

@TheQuinbox @fastfinge For syncing, I was considering setting up Syncthing for the Paperback state folder/file and syncing it between multiple devices that way. On mobile I think that is hidden now, but that could be changed. However, I think you're right with creating a custom syncing solution because using Syncthing would cause sync conflicts if two copies of Paperback are running at the same time. However, you could still take some ideas from Syncthing's design; I don't think you would need to have a server. Syncthing connects computers directly to each other either over LAN, or using UDP hole punching or other tricks to get past NAT, or using relay servers if nothing else works. On desktop Paperback could sync continuously while its open, and on Android that would work too. On iOS you can't have continuous background syncing, but you could have it sync periodically in the background like Synctrain does, and when the app is open in the foreground. You might even be able to use the Syncthing library, and Paperback would handle the conflict resolution while Syncthing would handle the network protocol and connection and things like that. This would require two instances of Paperback to be open or in the background at the same time to sync, but there could be a small server application that just syncs with Paperback instances and runs all the time that people could self-host on a Raspberry Pi or VPS, and you could offer a cheap hosting plan and run a server that people can add their instances to, although for that the server program would have to support multiple users. But the benefit is that people don't have to have a server and don't have to pay for hosting if they don't want to. And you would only need to sync bookmarks and reading positions, since you can already sync books with Syncthing in your own folders, although syncing books might be a good extra later on since its a natural extension.

Keri Svendsen @sapphireangel@hear-me.social

@emassey0135 @TheQuinbox @fastfinge I would pay so much money if I could have paperback that syncs from IOS to PC and back. OMG. This would help greatly when I'm out then come back home and want to pick back up on my laptop.

🇨🇦Samuel Proulx🇨🇦 @fastfinge@interfree.ca

@emassey0135 @TheQuinbox Whereas just using audiobookshelf would skip literally all of that complexity. Run it yourself or pay someone to run it for you. Expecting all that work just to avoid running a server seems unreasonable and entitled, to me.

Maria Reyes @TactileDragon@leaseysocial.com

@fastfinge @TheQuinbox Same! I've been trying to find the best Voice Dream Reader replacement, and have been bouncing from app to app

Jeffrey D. Stark @JStark@caneandable.social

@fastfinge @TheQuinbox audio is such a strange direction for a ebook reader

🇨🇦Samuel Proulx🇨🇦 @fastfinge@interfree.ca

@JStark @TheQuinbox Why? Books are books. I want all my books in one place.

Jeffrey D. Stark @JStark@caneandable.social

@fastfinge @TheQuinbox as I said; strange... that's like saying files are files... i want all my files in every app with every type of functionality LOL

🇨🇦Samuel Proulx🇨🇦 @fastfinge@interfree.ca

@JStark @TheQuinbox That makes no sense. I don't want my music in with my books. Nor my games. So I assume you want RTF files, epub files, txt files, doc files all in different apps? Having one app read all those formats would be so strange.