Note by @fastfinge

🇨🇦Samuel Proulx🇨🇦 @fastfinge@interfree.ca

Ummm. Tonight in aimud, one character stole the "ring for service" bell from inside a shop, then traded the stolen bell to another customer (who was right there and watched him take it) for mushrooms. Right after that, a different customer removed his pants and gave them to the shopkeeper in return for a waterskin. Then the shopkeeper traded the pants to the second customer to get her bell back.

Why are my npcs playing like actual mud players, instead of realistic npcs?

James H @quanin@allovertheplace.ca

@fastfinge Wait. This is an actual thing you're using? And can I? LOL

🇨🇦Samuel Proulx🇨🇦 @fastfinge@interfree.ca

@Tamasg @quanin In theory? Maybe. But only in theory. It's deeply under development, and totally undocumented by anything other than Claude gibberings. The basic idea is to create a mud where things can be built using older AI techniques like conceptnet and wordnet, and where when models are used, they're deeply constrained by rules of grammar, reality, and history. Also npcs can make decisions using state machines and other non-LLM planners. The model-building tools exist, and the basic infrastructure is all in place. But the player creation tools need to be expanded, protocol support for stuff like gmcp needs to get in, and documentation needs to actually exist as more than an AI fever dream. But to play, run it via uv, create your account, use apikey set to set an openrouter API key, type commonsense fetch to get the wordnet/conceptnet data, models to pick a default model, then worldgen and fill out the wizard to make a world. github.com/fastfinge/aimud

Tamas G @Tamasg@mindly.social

@fastfinge oh this is neat, I may have a play on it when I get a little bit of time. This totally fits the LitRPG vibe myself and Jess have been listening to so I'd be amused. And yeah, that's an interesting model challenge, the limitation of only having the equipment and object words to constrains to, explains a lot. :D Plus would be interesting to bench against both local and online modelst o see how well some of the 30B ones do these days. @quanin

x0 @x0@dragonscave.space

@Tamasg @fastfinge @quanin take piss, throw shade, open mind, put Bob in his place, drop kick

x0 @x0@dragonscave.space

@Tamasg @fastfinge @quanin I'm genuinely interested in how it would interpret drop kick enemy.

🇨🇦Samuel Proulx🇨🇦 @fastfinge@interfree.ca

@x0 @Tamasg @quanin It would complain that you aren't carrying kick enemy. If you typed drop-kick, or dropkick it would probably work.

x0 @x0@dragonscave.space

@fastfinge @Tamasg @quanin Drop kick might say you aren't carrying kick? Would be interesting. Dropkick would just solve it really.

James H @quanin@allovertheplace.ca

@x0 @fastfinge @Tamasg You can't have space in MUD commands. So yes, dropkick would solve it.

🇨🇦Samuel Proulx🇨🇦 @fastfinge@interfree.ca

@x0 @quanin Yup. Because wordnet can define the word dropkick. So the game already knows that dropkick means kicking something, no LLM even needed.

x0 @x0@dragonscave.space

@fastfinge @quanin get lost. No item named lost to get, probably.

🇨🇦Samuel Proulx🇨🇦 @fastfinge@interfree.ca

@x0 @quanin First it would try to figure out if "lost" is something reasonable to create in the current room. If it decided it was, then it would create something called lost and give it to you. In the same way that "get piles" will give you a terrible medical condition, not pick up both of the piles of coins.

🇨🇦Samuel Proulx🇨🇦 @fastfinge@interfree.ca

@x0 @Tamasg @quanin So one thing I do is run a validation pass. Just asking "does this action make sense in this place/world? Yes or no". So it can, in fact, refuse things. And once something is refused, it stays refused in that world forever.

James H @quanin@allovertheplace.ca

@fastfinge @Tamasg As a concept, super neat. If I ever get around to creating my own MUD I also thought about using Openrouter, but not like you have. A world that writes itself, though? That's new.

🇨🇦Samuel Proulx🇨🇦 @fastfinge@interfree.ca

@quanin @Tamasg Yup. The objects are all created as kinds of things, using data from wordnet/conceptnet. When a new verb is tried, it creates rules that act on those kinds, sort of like inform. Then I do a bunch of stuff with traits, affordances, and conditions, to let rules decide what things verbs will and will not act on, and make changes to the objects in real time. Also, all actions must be bi-directional. So that means if an npc wants to be holding a sword, a planner can just step backwards through the current state of the world and guide the npc towards getting to the goal, no LLM required.

James H @quanin@allovertheplace.ca

@fastfinge @Tamasg Man, imagine if your basic ROM MUD had that shit back in the day.

🇨🇦Samuel Proulx🇨🇦 @fastfinge@interfree.ca

@quanin @Tamasg Plus once a rule is invented, it can always be checked without use of an LLM. So the longer a world runs, the fewer LLM calls it has to make.

🇨🇦Samuel Proulx🇨🇦 @fastfinge@interfree.ca

@quanin @Tamasg But humans are going to be even better than this than AI is. So once I actually build interfaces for humans, I now have a system where people can build mud worlds without writing any actual code, where npcs can actually do things, and the world can have complex custom effects and behaviors. And it's secure because all people are doing is launching menus and filling in values. No random users entering code into the server.

James H @quanin@allovertheplace.ca

@fastfinge @Tamasg Yup, it's basically OLC on steroids if you've ever used that back in the old days. I was kinda hoping I'd be the first person to come at Evennia with an AI coding assistant. LOL

🇨🇦Samuel Proulx🇨🇦 @fastfinge@interfree.ca

@quanin @Tamasg You're more than welcome to join into the fun and submit pull requests! docs/future-plans.md is where my mind is at right now. All over the place, in other words.

James H @quanin@allovertheplace.ca

@fastfinge @Tamasg I might. But I'm also seriously considering starting up my own. We will not compete, though. You're doing something quite unique.

🇨🇦Samuel Proulx🇨🇦 @fastfinge@interfree.ca

@quanin @Tamasg What I'm doing is in docs/basic-principles.md if it helps you decide. You're also welcome to just build your thing on my thing if I get the OLC going and that's a thing you want.