The bug where after being on for 24-36 hours, the second hard drive on my #framework 16 laptop just...disappears...is getting really, really old. I thought it was temperature, so I started logging that. But nope. It's not an issue with the flash, because the data always comes back just fine, and there are no read errors or anything. It just gets tired after a day and decides to go for a nap. This is the problem with a fully repairable laptop: I installed it, so whatever's wrong, it's now my problem. I can't just go bother Del or whomever. It's running #Windows 11 because screen readers on Linux are still terrible, so anyone suggesting "install Linux" as the answer gets blocked. But I really don't think it's a Windows thing; it's not in device manager, or anywhere. Only fully powering down the machine and turning it back on again helps. A restart isn't enough. So it has to be a hardware thing!
@mcourcel Yup. I thought that might be the issue, so I set it to always on for the hard discs. But there was no change. I also turned off sleep and hibernate, in case those were causing problems.
@fastfinge Okay, I'm not going to suggest anything, because I know your level of knowlege and I'm sure you made the same searches that I did. There was a patch done back in August that broke a bunch of stuff for hard drives, but I'm sure you saw that.
@mcourcel I did! I'm on the latest Windows update available, and my understanding is that this was fixed at some point? I installed the second drive back in January, and this only started at the beginning of October. So...I'm baffled. I'm also bothered, bewildered, bamboozled, and buffaloed.
@fastfinge@mcourcel You should switch to Linux. ducks But on a more serious note, you're not gonna like it but it sounds like a drive issue. If you go get yourself a USB enclosure and slap that drive in there, do you still have that problem after 24 hours? If yes, definitely drive. If not, connection issue internally.
@quanin@mcourcel Yeah, that's the next step. I got myself the upgraded motherboard and graphics module, so once they arrive I'll be opening up the machine again anyway, so I'll do more drive testing at that point. I intend to reuse the old motherboard to build a little media PC, so I might just put a new drive in the laptop, and put this drive in there and see what it does. That way if it is the drive it'll be easier for me to access, and I need a drive for the media PC anyway.
@quanin@mcourcel The Framework is...not bad to work on, for a laptop. So still bad and horrible obviously. But it's worth it to have a laptop I can actually upgrade; I'm sick and tired of a new laptop every three years. And I wanted a media PC anyway, so reusing the old parts fits perfectly into my life.
@fastfinge@mcourcel So I shouldn't tell you I bought my current laptop 5 years ago and it still works flawlessly then, right? LOL Even runs Windows 11 if I feel like brain damage.
@quanin@mcourcel See, I have that with my macs. But every Windows laptop I've ever had, even though the CPU etc are still fine, something always goes wrong by between three and five years. Sometimes it's the fans, or the keyboard, or the screen hinge, or the USB plugs get wonky, or the headphone jack stops working, or...something. And then it's out of warranty so it'd cost so much to fix it I might as well just get a new one. I've tossed so many perfectly good components for that reason over the years that it makes me cry.
@fastfinge@mcourcel How long have you had your current laptop? To be clear I'm not knocking the strategy at all but it sounds like you just shortened the timeline on that pattern. Also you just explained why I tend to lean toward Dell over places like HP. They're the only one with a 4-year warranty. It's not perfect but if the motherboard goes in year 3 I'm still covered. That's never happened.
@quanin@mcourcel I've had the laptop for a year. I don't actually need to upgrade the motherboard; I'm only doing it because I was otherwise going to build a media PC anyway, and this way I get two for the price of one. I wouldn't recommend any other blind Framework 16 owner to upgrade unless they have some use for the old motherboard. The second hard drive that is having issues is one I installed in January myself. So if I wasn't upgrading the laptop, I would just replace it and things would be fine. Nothing else is wrong with the machine. And if it was, all of the ports are expansion cards that I can replace for between $5 and $15 depending on the port in question.
@fastfinge@mcourcel You're jumping ahead a little. IF the drive is fine then it's a problem with where it's connected to the laptop internally. That's why I suggested a USB enclosure as a step. If the problem is internal, you might be transferring that problem to your media PC.
@quanin@mcourcel Yup, and that would be annoying. But the motherboard has two drive slots, so it wouldn't be the end of the world. Somehow, though, I doubt it. I installed the drive in January and it worked perfectly until October. That kind of connection doesn't usually just die. Or if it does, other things on the board usually die alongside it.
@fastfinge@mcourcel Hardware is fucking weird, bro. All I know is something is preventing your laptop from sending power to the drive after 24 hours. It's either the drive or the motherboard. If it's the drive, cool. Problem solved. If it's the motherboard, that's your warning shot.
@quanin@mcourcel I'm also starting to wonder about something being underpowered. The USBC adapter is 180w, but at full load the machine pulls 240w. In theory, it should pull from the battery to make up the difference until the load goes back down. But, well, you know. Theory. I'm also grabbing myself a 240w USBC adapter, and I'm interested to see if that changes anything.
@quanin@mcourcel I don't even have another 180w USBC adapter to test with. And these things run super hot! So...I'm also giving this adapter a side-eye. I don't have a meter handy. But if I did...I wonder...
@fastfinge@mcourcel I mean, anything's possible (see my comment about hardware being weird, bro), but presumably you've been pulling 240 at full load since January. If that's your issue, you should have seen it before now. Also why does it specifically become underpowered after 24 hours? Yeah, that's a problem and you should definitely replace that adaptor, but I don't think that's the problem.
@quanin@mcourcel Well, why would a connection on the board die after 24 hours? And then be fine the minute I shut down the machine and power it back on? Neither make sense to me. But if I run Forza at the max settings, I can watch the battery discharge even while the laptop is plugged in. It's fun! It makes me wonder about some kind of power management thing in the BIOS? Framework did release a BIOS update recently, that lets the laptop charge to a max of 80 percent for battery protection if it hasn't been unplugged in over a week.
@fastfinge@mcourcel When did you install that bios update? Before, or after your hard drive started taking its daily naps? If before, that's definitely a factor and you should probably yell at Framework. If after, I'm still leaning hardware issue.
This has been edited to make more sense re: what I was trying to say.
@quanin@mcourcel The problem is...I...don't know? I don't always leave the laptop on all the time, obviously. And sometimes, of course, Windows just crashes for one reason or another. Or it installs an update overnight or whatever. And then the first few times I noticed it I went "Huh." and rebooted before I noticed the pattern. And of course it's my secondary drive, so I only notice it's gone when I go to play a game (it's where Steam installs all the games); if I'm just browsing the web or whatever it could be gone without me even noticing. October is when I noticed the pattern, started leaving the laptop on 24/7, and checking the drive frequently.
@fastfinge@mcourcel You wouldn't happen to be able to get your hands on the bios you were previously using, would you? If you could, that'd rule that out quick, fast and in a hurry.
@quanin@mcourcel I could, but Framework doesn't allow downgrading to older BIOS versions because they changed the CA and key for secure boot and code signing.
@fastfinge@mcourcel Well. That's dumb. If it actually is a bios issue how the hell do they expect you to work around it until they come out with a fix? LOL
